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	<title>Comments on: A Little Law and Politics: Should We Deny U.S. Visas to Gaza Flotilla Activists?</title>
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	<description>Twin Cities Jewfolk: the hub for hip Jewish stuff in Minneapolis and St. Paul</description>
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		<title>By: Soren Sorensen</title>
		<link>http://tcjewfolk.com/law-politics-gaza-flotilla-activists/comment-page-1/#comment-5960</link>
		<dc:creator>Soren Sorensen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jun 2010 15:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tcjewfolk.com/?p=9410#comment-5960</guid>
		<description>The Charity and Security Network have a lot of great content and testimony about how laws and impulses like this are not helping in the war on terror or humanitarian relief operations: http://www.charityandsecurity.org/

Col. Ann Wright and other Free Gaza Movement activists tried to confront Rep. Brad Sherman about his: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NPuFyduZI4</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Charity and Security Network have a lot of great content and testimony about how laws and impulses like this are not helping in the war on terror or humanitarian relief operations: <a href="http://www.charityandsecurity.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.charityandsecurity.org/</a></p>
<p>Col. Ann Wright and other Free Gaza Movement activists tried to confront Rep. Brad Sherman about his: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NPuFyduZI4" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NPuFyduZI4</a></p>
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		<title>By: Slavey</title>
		<link>http://tcjewfolk.com/law-politics-gaza-flotilla-activists/comment-page-1/#comment-5937</link>
		<dc:creator>Slavey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jun 2010 18:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tcjewfolk.com/?p=9410#comment-5937</guid>
		<description>Hi there,

great post.  I think the problem is not with the law but with its selective enforcement.

Why is it okay for American citizens to raise funds for the IRA and have Gerry Adams visit the White House?

I think the global fight against terrorism would be far more effective if we didn&#039;t choose between &quot;good&quot; terrorist and &quot;bad&quot; terrorists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi there,</p>
<p>great post.  I think the problem is not with the law but with its selective enforcement.</p>
<p>Why is it okay for American citizens to raise funds for the IRA and have Gerry Adams visit the White House?</p>
<p>I think the global fight against terrorism would be far more effective if we didn&#8217;t choose between &#8220;good&#8221; terrorist and &#8220;bad&#8221; terrorists.</p>
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		<title>By: Susan</title>
		<link>http://tcjewfolk.com/law-politics-gaza-flotilla-activists/comment-page-1/#comment-5815</link>
		<dc:creator>Susan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 22:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tcjewfolk.com/?p=9410#comment-5815</guid>
		<description>Jenna -

You make good points. Certainly one could argue that a jhudge or jury should be given the opportunity to decide whether it&#039;s reasonable to believe that, since they were trying to run a blockade, they could possibly believe the goods would go to anyone other than Hamas.

As someone who lives in the &quot;sunny land of insanity,&quot; I can confirm that I have seen a few short follow-up interviews with people who were on the flotilla trying to break the blockade. They haven&#039;t been horribly skewed, though.

For instance, in one report a man says he was beaten while he was detained by the military after being taken from one of the flotilla boats, however the reporter did mention that his claim could not be independently varified. He also made it clear that he resisted the Israeli military at every opportunity, including jumping from the ship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jenna -</p>
<p>You make good points. Certainly one could argue that a jhudge or jury should be given the opportunity to decide whether it&#8217;s reasonable to believe that, since they were trying to run a blockade, they could possibly believe the goods would go to anyone other than Hamas.</p>
<p>As someone who lives in the &#8220;sunny land of insanity,&#8221; I can confirm that I have seen a few short follow-up interviews with people who were on the flotilla trying to break the blockade. They haven&#8217;t been horribly skewed, though.</p>
<p>For instance, in one report a man says he was beaten while he was detained by the military after being taken from one of the flotilla boats, however the reporter did mention that his claim could not be independently varified. He also made it clear that he resisted the Israeli military at every opportunity, including jumping from the ship.</p>
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		<title>By: cheryl</title>
		<link>http://tcjewfolk.com/law-politics-gaza-flotilla-activists/comment-page-1/#comment-5813</link>
		<dc:creator>cheryl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 22:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tcjewfolk.com/?p=9410#comment-5813</guid>
		<description>Very well said!

In response to Susan, these &quot;peace&quot; activists are not stupid... just useful idiots. But they&#039;re hoping the rest of the world is stupid enough to believe this was a Love Boat rather than a ship of fools whose main objective, as stated by flotilla organizers, was to run Israel&#039;s maritime blockade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very well said!</p>
<p>In response to Susan, these &#8220;peace&#8221; activists are not stupid&#8230; just useful idiots. But they&#8217;re hoping the rest of the world is stupid enough to believe this was a Love Boat rather than a ship of fools whose main objective, as stated by flotilla organizers, was to run Israel&#8217;s maritime blockade.</p>
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		<title>By: Jenna Mitelman</title>
		<link>http://tcjewfolk.com/law-politics-gaza-flotilla-activists/comment-page-1/#comment-5811</link>
		<dc:creator>Jenna Mitelman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jun 2010 22:02:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://tcjewfolk.com/?p=9410#comment-5811</guid>
		<description>Susan,

I think you raise a very important point.

In general, any support you provide to a terrorist organization gets counted under this law. So that would be strike 1 against these participants.

But in my opinion, the bigger issue is this:

Hamas is the government - the only government - of Gaza. We can dislike this fact, but it is a fact, nonetheless.
This particular flotilla was clearly organized to try and break the blockade imposed to prevent Hamas from getting weapons. They clearly said so themselves, and I think it&#039;s pretty evident from their refusal to bring their goods to Ashdod, to have them inspected and brought to Gaza by truck (in which case they would be far more likely to reach the NGOs and the people of Gaza).

Instead, the people on the boats said that they had permission from the &quot;Gaza port authority&quot; (read: Hamas - it is the *only* authority of any kind in Gaza).
And they were headed straight to Gaza, bringing goods in.

I suppose we could argue that they really intended to stand around in the streets of Gaza, handing out items only to people under the age of 10, but I think that&#039;s not really reasonable.

When you are headed into an area that is under pretty tight control by a paramilitary terrorist group, to claim that you intended to give 10,000 tons of stuff to the &quot;local people,&quot; and not to that paramilitary group that runs everything is a pretty thin argument to me.

I think anyone interested enough in Gaza to join such a flotilla would have known that much of what they were bringing was likely to end up with the official local government, ie, Hamas.

My guess is that (and I&#039;d love for some of the lawyers to chime in here) in any normal case, if you&#039;ve ever participated in a giant flotilla to provide a whole lot of stuff to a terrorist organization, or a small region, tightly run by a terrorist organization - you would be prosecuted, or denied a visa into the United States, for the rest of your life (Lord knows, we deny visas on far flimsier excuses than that). Assuming I&#039;m right, I&#039;d be concerned if a glaring exception is made in this one case.

P.S. From what I hear from my sources in California (aka sunny land of insanity), several of the American participants have been interviewed pretty much non-stop on their local news channels, telling and retelling the story of their glorious adventure bravely standing up to the Israeli foe (unsurprisingly, aging hippies feature prominently). Personally, I&#039;m disgusted - both by their actions, and by the so-called news media giving these people a platform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Susan,</p>
<p>I think you raise a very important point.</p>
<p>In general, any support you provide to a terrorist organization gets counted under this law. So that would be strike 1 against these participants.</p>
<p>But in my opinion, the bigger issue is this:</p>
<p>Hamas is the government &#8211; the only government &#8211; of Gaza. We can dislike this fact, but it is a fact, nonetheless.<br />
This particular flotilla was clearly organized to try and break the blockade imposed to prevent Hamas from getting weapons. They clearly said so themselves, and I think it&#8217;s pretty evident from their refusal to bring their goods to Ashdod, to have them inspected and brought to Gaza by truck (in which case they would be far more likely to reach the NGOs and the people of Gaza).</p>
<p>Instead, the people on the boats said that they had permission from the &#8220;Gaza port authority&#8221; (read: Hamas &#8211; it is the *only* authority of any kind in Gaza).<br />
And they were headed straight to Gaza, bringing goods in.</p>
<p>I suppose we could argue that they really intended to stand around in the streets of Gaza, handing out items only to people under the age of 10, but I think that&#8217;s not really reasonable.</p>
<p>When you are headed into an area that is under pretty tight control by a paramilitary terrorist group, to claim that you intended to give 10,000 tons of stuff to the &#8220;local people,&#8221; and not to that paramilitary group that runs everything is a pretty thin argument to me.</p>
<p>I think anyone interested enough in Gaza to join such a flotilla would have known that much of what they were bringing was likely to end up with the official local government, ie, Hamas.</p>
<p>My guess is that (and I&#8217;d love for some of the lawyers to chime in here) in any normal case, if you&#8217;ve ever participated in a giant flotilla to provide a whole lot of stuff to a terrorist organization, or a small region, tightly run by a terrorist organization &#8211; you would be prosecuted, or denied a visa into the United States, for the rest of your life (Lord knows, we deny visas on far flimsier excuses than that). Assuming I&#8217;m right, I&#8217;d be concerned if a glaring exception is made in this one case.</p>
<p>P.S. From what I hear from my sources in California (aka sunny land of insanity), several of the American participants have been interviewed pretty much non-stop on their local news channels, telling and retelling the story of their glorious adventure bravely standing up to the Israeli foe (unsurprisingly, aging hippies feature prominently). Personally, I&#8217;m disgusted &#8211; both by their actions, and by the so-called news media giving these people a platform.</p>
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