Your unwillingness to answer even a question of what is the map of Israel speaks volumes. Also is almost funny for a site that goes into overdrive to point out every actual and perceived anti-semitic statement now trying to cover up for one of the most vile racists in Israel today.

The “secular” Mr. Liberman is the Foreign minister of Israel. A post so important that it is comical to see him being portrayed as just another politician. And of course no response to questions about his “secular” credentials.

By your own standards weak standards for Mr Liberman one will wonder why all the protests against Lewis Farakkan and anyone like say Ellison who associated with him. Am i to believe now that it was all phony hysteria ?

Statements like “Why cannot jews live anywhere in Palestine” and “Israel has historically always taken the opportunity to make peace” and “Palestinians have generally rejected any attempt at reconcilliation” are entirely based on your biases. You won’t even tell me what the map of Israel is and why Israel cannot negotiate with Hamas when u stated there should be no pre-conditions.

When there was discrimination against Jews in this country would your statements to your Jewish peers have been “it is important to you live among people who agree with your positions, there is a multitude of other countries you could explore” ? Also gets me to wonder if u support such statements being made to Jewish people in say Morocco or Iran.

I do understand that the fact that almost 1/3 of Americans do not buy the constant stream of propaganda troubles you. The years of endless propaganda are now being countered by independent blogs and news sites and independent blogger’s like me who counter such “facts”.

1/3 of Americans would approx be around 130 million and I think that is a good start for my point of view (much to the consternation of Fox News). And with the changing demographics of America (more Muslims, Hindus, Hispanics) I believe time and the truth is on our side.

There are plenty of people who believe plenty of things including the 70% of this country who were all gung ho about going into Iraq to teach Saddam a get those WMDS that Israel and America and Britain where so sure that existed. How did that turn out ?

Thank you for your comment and concern. I try to make it my policy to respond to any comments, as long as they raise actual points or questions, and do not descend into random baiting, or offensive namecalling.

xper,

I appreciate your dedication to this debate (though I somewhat question how worthwhile it actually is – do you think there is anything at all that I could say that would have any chance of changing your mind? And if not – why ask?)

However, taking your comments at face value nevertheless:

I am well aware of *statements* by Avigdor Lieberman, and many other leaders of many other parties, on all sorts of matters. Certainly including their rather strong, and well-known, scepticism on the viability and advisability of the peace process.

However, I will remind you that I do not complain about words. I complain merely when those words are accompanied by ongoing, vicious violence, indiscriminately directed at civilian populations.

Like I’ve said before – Lieberman stands for whatever he wants to stand for. It’s a free country (or at least in Israel, it is). And he only has power to the extent that people support him, and vote for him. If tomorrow they choose to not vote for him (and I’m sure you know that Israeli politics is extremely variable from year to year), he will lose that power, and will simply quietly go home with his ideas, or present new ones, if they would keep him in power. That’s it. I do not begrudge politicians any statements or positions (though I may not vote for them) – since people have the ability to choose to support or not support those politicians. Just as they do in America (and I assure you, there are plenty of politicians whose positions I do not approve of right here in the States. Could you think of any?)

However, Lieberman is not the single-handed, nearly-all-powerful, all-controlling ruler of his country. Yes, I fully realize that Hamas was actually elected, rather overwhelmingly, but its people in 2006. Though I do wonder when the next elections might be…

We have politicians here in the States who say all sorts of things. Even Presidents. Even Presidents’ spiritual advisors. But I have not seen the entire United States of America judged as a nation in the world based on the specific statements of one Pastor Jeremiah Wright. Or any of the many other pastors that various US Presidents have had lunch, breakfast, or Sundar prayer meetings with. That would be a ludicrous measure by which to judge a nation.

However, to judge Gaza by the stated aims (think of a party platform, if you will) of the single body that is entirely in control of the place, and is not likely to be going anywhere anytime soon, and that has acted on those impulses by committing murder time and time again – that seems like a very different ballgame to me.

Are you really sure that you do not see the different between the stated positions of a single political party in a democracy, and the actual official actions of the single player in government? You seem brighter than that to me.

And on the subject of only needing to read the name of the blog to see how balanced it is: may I humbly point out that if you truly feel that we are such an extremely biased publications, and I, specifically, am such an incredibly biased author – I promise not to force you to read such biased drivel in future. Really. There is certainly lots of stuff I do not read on the internet.

Having said that, yes, in this conflict, I generally come down on the side of Israel being more generally in the right. That is actually not a knee-jerk position, but one I have thought through very carefully, and have very specific reasons for, so I do not make any apologies for my position. No, Israel is not always 100% right – as no one ever is – and I do not support all of their government policies – as I do not in this country, either. And no, the Palestinians, and the Arab countries generally, are not always 100% wrong – as no one ever is. However, in this case, having considered that Israel has historically always taken the opportunity to make peace, and has always sought that peace, and has not gone out to attempt to slaughter thousands of innocent civilians; and given that the Palestinians have generally rejected any attempt at reconciliation, and have generally pursued abhorrent, murderous, bloody means of expressing themselves against civilian victims – I’m pretty sure I know which side of that arrangement I come out on. You may be surprised to hear that well over half (by some counts, as many as 2/3) of Americans share my opinion. I suppose you might think that we are all biased extremists. In which case, assuming that it is important to you to live among people who agree with your positions, there is a multitude of other countries you could explore. I’m sure they would welcome you with open arms. (On second thought, if you’re an American, perhaps they won’t).

Have a wonderful holiday!

~Jenna

“Jew free”, Where ? How ? All that was a proposed was Jews and Palestinians be allowed to emigrate as they please. And that is “Jew free” ?

“murder perpetrated by Hamas” – which statement condoned that ? Oh wait never mind. He’s not going to respond. Just smear and walk away. Can’t answer the inconvenient questions.

In response to your answer to my second question:

Firstly u state it should all be negotiated. Fine. Then could u tell me why does not Israel negotiate with Hamas. Why all those preconditions ? Abbas and the PLO had to recognize Israel before the US and Israel would sit down with him Not a precondition ? More on this later.

Secondly your three state solution was an endorsement of an opinion piece. That very piece pointed to an economic three solution. It states:

“Once detached from Gaza, the West Bank leadership probably could force Israel to dismantle roadblocks and evacuate settlements.”

It is not me presuming anything. Rather pointing to your own endorsement (not by the LA Times) of the “three state” by the which is nothing more Netenyahus “peace plan” which is nothing more than Bantustans.

Funny, but sad. Many of us who follow the I-P conflict are well aware of the lingo.

Thirdly your quote: “Had the troops stopped 2 miles to the east or west, would that have made that land somehow mistically, universally “Palestinian”? And not to be negotiated away under any circumstances, for any price? Funny, there are some Palestinian groups that do think that way. Just not ones I would particularly trust in a negotiation.”

Funny u consider this a precondition. Then when Abbas was asked to recognize Israel, can u tell me which Israel ? Can u show me the map.

If it is not a precondition why go into a tizzy when Hamas brings out a map of Palestine where there is no Israel ? After all every thing is to be negotiated. Right ?

There are Israeli groups who’ve made a life time of “they want to destroy Israel” just to avoid any negotiations. And now u are saying they are all wrong ?

Fourthly your quote:”However, taking a small aside for a moment – and understanding that everything is up for a negotiation – why can no Jews live in an eventual Palestine? There are Arabs living in Israel, after all. And Jews living in America. Why is the eventual Palestine just assumed to definitely be “Jew-free” and ban all Jews? Is it not conceivable that in a final negotiation, some may choose to stay, and live in Palestine? ”

Can u point out where i said any Palestine state should be Jewish free. You are very concerned about my “assumptions” but aren’t u now making assumptions.

I totally agree. Israel/Palestine as envisioned by the world community was Jews and Palestinians living together. So if there was a new Palestine then Jews should be allowed to emigrate to Palestine and Palestinians should be allowed to emigrate to Israel. I’m sure u will agree with that statement.

Those Jews who want to live under the rules of a Palestinian state, just as Palestinian Christians and Moslems already will have to should be allowed. Just as Jews who live in America under the rules of America. I’m sure u will agree with me that America cannot allow Israeli controlled settlements on its land.

After all just like Jews and Moslems in America, I’m sure u would agree that you would not consider yourself an equal citizen if only say Bahai’s or Christians were allowed to emigrate to America.

Finally your quote “I realize that in the Middle East, it’s easy to forget, but that is how it works in the free countries.”

I’m sure people in the Middle East love freedom. But look at the history of those pointing fingers at them. Holding hands with the Saudis, sucking up to the butcher of Egypt and looking the other way while he butchers his people, torturing by pulling out the nails (the real nails, not fake nails) of thousands of Iranians. Nice to preach freedom by America and Israel while we’ve been busy propping up almost every dictator in the Middle East

And to cap it all off u even have a new article telling us how wonderful Mubarak of Egypt is !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have a Happy Holiday.