A proposal to ban circumcision will be on the San Francisco ballot this November.
As a Jewish Mama, my response should fall somewhere along the lines of outrage and a head-tisk.
And as a bleeding heart Mama, my response should be somewhere in the range of agreement and an apology to my son.
I whole-heartdely feel all of these emotions. In other words, I’m conflicted.
I don’t agree with the circumcision ban. But you might be surprised why.
Let’s start with the Jewish Mama part of me. Circumcision is mandated in the Jewish religion.
So two years ago, when our son was born, Jason and I barely discussed whether or not he would be circumcised. We delved into the details of when, where, and by whom. But circumcising Brody was a given for us.
When I called various mohels, I was repeatedly told that this would be Brody’s one chance to perform this mitzvah and that Jason and I shouldn’t take it away from him.
And as far as we’re concerned, he’s legit. We didn’t follow every rule and regulation to a “T” (Really, when have we ever?), but Brody is circumcised.
Flipping over to look at the bleeding heart side of me, the arguments against circumcision are compelling.
The reasons start with medical proof that circumcising isn’t necessary for cleanliness and health purposes.
They continue by disproving the “everybody’s doing it” philosophy. As my friend Mary so eloquently puts it, our boys won’t be laughing at each other in the locker room; there’ll be variety in there.
And they go in for the win by comparing circumcision to female mutilation, calling anti-circumcision “advocating for our children,” and naming the movement “leaving my son whole.” These word choices certainly make me second guess myself.
What it really comes down to is this: I don’t regret circumcising Brody and I’m not 100% sure that I would do things differently if we were to have another baby (Which, for the record, we’re not.). What I am embarrassed by is that we barely thought about this decision.
We’re parenting in a different time and place. What has been done in the name of “that’s just the way it is”, doesn’t necessarily have to be a given. And it’s absolutely fabulous.
We’re conscious of our choices and can research the decisions that we make. And our children and families are better off for it.
***
We went to a birthday party this weekend. It was (finally) warm outside so the kids ran around barefoot. As a group of little boys rushed by, I overheard a mom commenting on one little guy’s painted nails.
That’s just so cute! She said.
He’s in his princess phase. Was his mother’s response.
That’s the norm today. Nothing needs to be taken for granted, assumed, or done just because it always has been.
***
So I don’t have a hard and fast rule for whether or not parents should circumcise their sons. What I do know is that it’s a decision that should be thoughtfully made.
And as for the circumcision ban? Well that just falls into the category of non-thinking decision making, doesn’t it?
Galit Breen is an Israeli freezing her tuchus in Minnesota. She’s a Mama of three currently working on her first book about teaching children spirituality outside of religion. You can find her regularly at These Little Waves or here at TCJ on the first Friday of each month.
We gave it zero thought, except for “Maybe it is going be a Pesach bris and OMG help!!!!”
That being said, if it is not in your religious/cultural tradition I don’t know why you would want to do this. The cosmetic reason I don’t find compelling; because 100 years ago it was something else and in 100 years it will be something else.
If it IS someone’s tradition, however, I don’t want the government saying they can’t.
I find it very telling that until the “intactivists” really got rolling, almost every Jewish boy that I knew of, no matter how unaffiliated the family was, had had a brit milah of some kind. These are deep, deep roots–it is NOT a passing fashion.
And I believe the obligation to have a brit done falls on the father, as it did on Avraham for Yitzchak.
The issue that I have with the ban is that it takes away the freedom for a parent to choose. I don’t think that legislating issues like this is a good idea. I fear that if we ask the government to start controlling things like circumicision, eventually, we willingly give up our agency to make basic decisions. Its a dangerous road to start down. I do think that parents should think it through and make the decision.
I agree with the idea that government shouldn’t be interfering with the practice of Jewish religion, including circumcision, but I would like to update the assumption that circumcision is not related to health.
Traditionalists might say the fact that male circumcision reduces the risk of life-threatening illness is not relevant, but I believe it is another important piece of evidence that should be considered when governments consider legislation.
The current state of medical knowledge regarding male circumcision and health is summarized below:
The Center for Disease Control has completed rigorous international studies of male circumcision and AIDS. When men were circumcised, the risk of transmitting AIDS to female partners was reduced by 44%. For high-risk men (such as those with other sexually transmitted diseases) the risk of transmitting AIDS to female partners was reduced by 71% if the men had been circumcised. Circumcision also reduced the risk to the men of contracting AIDS.
Male circumcision also reduces the risk of genital ulcer disease, chlamydia, penile cancer, and cervical cancer in female partners. Both penile cancer and cervical cancer are related to the human papillomavirus (HPV) infection, transmission of which is less likely in circumcised men.
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/circumcision.html
My son’s circumcision gave no appearance of being a traumatic experience. He certainly cried longer and harder on many occasions with gas than he did at his bris. But, without minimizing my own or other moms’ bleeding hearts, the thought of my son or daughter avoiding AIDS, cancer or other illness as a result of the Jewish practice of male circumcision seems far more compelling.
The nuts in California have way too much time on their hands. Religious freedom is guaranteed in the Constitution, and THEY want to change THAT?????
The problem with the argument of circumcision reducing the transmission of HIV is that the use of condoms does a fine job, as well. The studies that looked at STI transmission were performed in areas of the world that do not have ready access to condoms and, for that matter, use sex (and rape) as a way to control other individuals. My hope is that most Western men are going to be more respectful of their own bodies and their partners, and also that we will be teaching our sons about safer sexual practices. What I would hate to see is HIV, and other STI (including HPV), rates going up because of the assumption that circumcision will be as effective as safer sex practices; I can definitely see that happening.
There’s also lots of talk about how circumcision prevents things like UTIs in men, and things like foreskin adhesion, but much of that is due to medical practitioners and parents not knowing how to deal with intact penises. I’m not alone in having been told by doctors, incorrectly, that my son’s foreskin needs to be retracted. Doing so causes the problems circumcision is supposed to “prevent.” Not doing anything to the foreskin also prevents those problems.
I fully believe that religious practice needs to stay out of the scope of government, though there are certainly cases wherein we step in to help those who are in danger (see: medical care not being sought for common, treatable illnesses because of religious beliefs). I’m not quite sure where I feel circumcision falls on this spectrum, though if every little boy had a circumcision done by a mohel instead of a doctor, we may see fewer problems with the practice overall.
I do think, though, that circumcision is the last sacred cow of Judaism, and we shouldn’t not think about it. How many American Jews keep kosher? How many observe laws of modesty? How many do all the many of the things that are, as some people would say, required of all Jews? Excuses are made and mitzvot are rationalized away, yet this one remains, and it’s the only one, that I can tell, involves inflicting our will upon another person who cannot make his own decision.
My son isn’t circumcised. I don’t plan on circumcising any other sons I have. This is one thing that may prevent me from converting, at least until I’m finished having children, which I think is a shame. It sometimes feels as if I could do anything else as a Jew *except* not circumcise my sons, and it would be a-okay.
I totally hijacked your commnts, Galit. But I just wanted to say that I feel that it’s okay to think about and question this issue, just as it is supposed to be okay to think about and question any aspect of Judaism. What would the faith be if we always had to fall into line?
And what would the faith (and the peoplehood) be if none of us ever fell into line?
What would make American Jews Jews, then?
Would we end up like — oh, I don’t know — Italian-Americans, sharing not much more than a style of last name and, sometimes, a cuisine?
Or is everybody okay with that?
Tiffany,
I think you’re right that this is one of the *last* things left that unaffiliated or marginally Jewish Jews do (and not all of them do it). Sometimes along with a Passover seder of some kind (not necessarily on seder night) or lighting Chanukah candles.
Perhaps the reason for it is that it is a one-time thing that at the same time is SO associated with Jewishness. Kashrut and tzniut are lifestyle commitments that require maintenance and thought every single day. Shabbat observance (in any form, not necessary to the Orthodox “level”) is a weekly commitment. Jewish education over an above an American school system education takes time and money and years of commitment.
Parents do decide for their kids how they will live and how they will be educated before they can make that decision on their own–I think that the differences with circumcision is that it is a physical mark and that it is permanent.
@OneTiredEma- Thanks for weighing in here! I think it’s so interesting that you see it as the father’s obligation! I so saw it as mine- I made the phone calls, did the research, made the ultimate decision of where & when. Also? Agreed- not a passing fashion. But. But- something edges uncomfortable to me with besides religion and tradition people shouldn’t circumcise??
@Melissa- Thanks so much for your note! Agreed, completely. I’m all about thoughtful decisions. I think the other side point of view is we’re deciding for the babies and *they* should get to thoughtfully decide for themselves. What do you think about that?
@Paula- Thank you for your thoughts! I think that we can make any research say what we want it to, you know? We can each pull up studies that show our points of view as the right ones. But while the cleanliness and health arguments used to be fairly un-argued, they’re definitely argued now! And as for circumcision not being traumatic? I disagree whole-heartdely there. And I love that- who are we as thoughtful decision makers if we can’t disagree? Thanks so much for weighing in.
@Steve- Thank you for weighing in here, too! I used to live near SF- it’s a passionate place, for sure!
@Tiffany- I’m blown away by your comment. Silenced, really- which is saying a lot for me! I would just like to say that your thinking and researched decision making just falls in line with how many strive to live right now- in so many arenas outside of religion and tradition. Also- that last part about faith & falling into line: A-freakin-men. No apologies for hijacking! {In this case :)}
Galit, I wouldn’t feel bad. I did the same thing. As soon as our son was born, we jumped on the moyel wagon. No government should be allowed to take that decision away from anyone.
Eight days after the birth, as tired as I felt, we had a minyon in our house at 8am for the bris of our son. I didn’t watch the slashing up close, rather I stood in the background. Being one of 3 girls myself, and after having a daughter as my first child, I was really ill acquainted with the boy’s private parts. I was so worried about damaging something. Nonetheless, it’s a tradition that’s been passed down by our ancestors, and we’re such a small, special group of people, I wouldn’t change my decision. I also thought it was better hygiene for a child to be circumcised.
Our first son was circumcised at the hospital. I didn’t go with him. He was back in like 30 seconds and we were told he didn’t cry. However, it was not a good one; his skin re-adhered and it had to be unstuck by the ped later on. Not fun. We didn’t do a bris because we have no family here and we are not religious.
We had a bris with our second son because he was born at home and I wasn’t going to bring him into a hospital for the procedure. The mohel did an amazing job. But I can still hear the crying, and I sat and nursed him for like an hour after. My heart was breaking and I felt like the whole thing was barbaric.
I’m glad I don’t have to make a decision like that again.
On a side note: a friend’s uncircumcised son noticed, at about age 7, that he did not look like other boys. He begged his mother for a circumcision, and she explained everything that would happen. He still wanted it done – and so he did, under anesthesia, of course.
O, Galit.
The Motherhood Club.
You can second guess, and third guess, and 27th guess yourself.
You will see horror films of baby boys screaming when this procedure is performed.
You will hear people liken this to female genital mutilation.
I thought good and hard about the decision to circumcise.
I asked 3 neonatalogists.
I also remember one of my college boyfriends telling me of the teasing he endured, and how he wished he had been circumcised, but now was much too afraid to go through with it.
I remember how he told me dreaded ever being intimate, or being in a group shower situation.
He had been like this most of his life since age 10.
His words stuck with me the most. And moved me to have our boys circumcised.
Galit, this piece really had my wheels turning. When I was pregnant with my oldest son (circumstances arose and was single) I didn’t hesitate, I knew I would be having him circumcised. Even further, I knew that I would be having a bris for this 8 days after his birth. I never thought about it, I just knew that’s what I wanted.
A few years later, my husband and I went on to welcome 2 other boys into our family. My husband is Catholic, I’m Jewish, but again, we didn’t have to think about this decision. They were both going to be circumcised. We quickly ran down the list of reasons we wanted this, and we both agreed on all of them.
When I heard about the proposal to ban circumcision in San Francisco, I won’t lie, I was taken back a bit. I feel that some families choose to do this for religious reasons, and who is the government to take that away? Some have their beliefs regarding hygiene or traditions, and I don’t feel that the government has the right to take that away. I feel that if they take a step and ban circumcision, it would lead to government controlling many more aspects of our religion, beliefs, and traditions.
I believe that this is up to the families to decide what is best for their children. As a parent, YOU decide what you want for your child. Not the government.
@Mike-Thanks for your comment! I don’t think it has to be so all or nothing like that. In fact, I think religion would be more practiced if people didn’t feel like it was like that. Would not circumcising really make someone not Jewish if in their hearts they embraced so very much of the religion {like Tiffany described above?}? I love the discussion- thank you for that!
@OneTiredEma- I think you’re 100% right- the physical mark and pain is what’s grabbing people’s heartstrings.
@Holly- Thank you for your words. It’s nice to know that I wasn’t alone in the way I went about things. And WOW yes- I was so ill prepared for the care. It broke my heart every diaper change. {Poor Jason- who had to do said diaper changes because I couldn’t. True story.}
@Cheryl-Thanks so much for your comment! I just kept thinking OUCH through your stories. And yes, I too am so so very glad that I’m not deciding again. Thank you for being so, so open! It’s the only way that we can all learn from each other, right?
@Alexandra- The best thing about you? Is that you thought about it. Thoroughly. And that my dear friend- is what I’m talking about here! Thank you for weighing in. So much.
Circumsion, circumcision. It’s not something that is done in my culture (and no, men aren’t walking UTI’s and STD’s in my culture… health is about learning to care for your body and using protection), so I honestly have a hard time understanding why people do it to their babies and then use the health benefits rationalization.
I get that for some it’s part of their religion, and even though I would never follow such practice, religious or not, I get that.
But for others, where religion doesn’t apply, it baffles me how many don’t even question it because it’s just what’s done, or do it because they don’t want their boys to look different. Really? I hope to teach my children to embrace differences, not cut off parts of their body to fit in in the locker room.
My mother works as a nurse’s aid in a maternity floor in a big hospital. She often helps with circumcisions, not the actual procedure, but prepping the babies.
Parent’s are always told their babies did great and barely cried. She told it’s not true. babies cry and it hurts them. Some doctors are amazing at and are supper quick, but often times, they mess up, and have to recut, and it’s messy… and it hurts the babies. It’s a major teaching hospital, sometimes it’s interns who have never done it before.
I realize it’s probably a different experience when done by a mohel?
anyways, I don’t mean to sound judgemental, it’s just something that is so foreign to me.
and although I don’t agree with it, I don’t think the gov. has the right to ban it because of the religious issues.
I do wish more parents gave it more thought before making the decision.
You should know that this is a HOT BUTTON TOPIC to which people respond with VERY STRONG OPINIONS. I wrote a post about circumcision and it was SUPPOSED to be funny but really, people went nuts.
Personally, I feel whatever the parent believes is fine but the anti-circumcision forces feel very STRONGLY about their views.
Hope you have a calm rational discussion. Good luck.
heres my post from yesterday and you can see the nuts:
http://allfookedup.com/in-which-i-respond-to-the-bullshit/
I believe that parents should have a choice unless there is a wealth of proof that circumcision is harmful to the baby. It is such an old practice though, wouldn’t we know by now?
We have no religious traditions to back up our decision.
And when we were putting together our hospital plan with the OB/GYN she asked if we would be doing it.
Circumcision is the norm in both our families because that’s what was done when we were children. For my husband, he wanted his son to be like him.
I didn’t feel so strongly, but it was what I was comfortable with, having raised two Jewish boys from babyhood at work. And so that’s what we did. My OB/GYN did the procedure in the hospital, and it didn’t seem to cause him much pain at the time.
I agree with the idea that there will be variety in locker rooms as they grow, and I hope that we can raise tolerant boys in this as well as in other things, regardless of their foreskins.
As for the proposed ban? Government needs to get out of mandating our every decision. Nothing good will come from these kinds of laws.
I have to be very honest here…I as a young mother went with the flow. I didn’t have research or check things out.
My first was born in NY. I was never asked that I can recall (I was a little girl, 18 and a senior in highschool), they took him and did it. He had no problems and I never thought twice about it.
My second was born in Florida (I was 21), at a teaching hospital. This hospital did not do it, it wasn’t available. I worried, because he would be different and then questioned why they didn’t. I was told it caused the baby unnecessary pain and there was no purpose in it.
My third was born (I was 25) in another hospital, and I do not remember being given the choice then, but it was done.
So, I have 3 boys, and one is different. We have made jokes and when old enough he did ask why he was “different”. He does wish he was like his brothers, and has said that he feels different in many places, like the locker room.
I am proud of the mothers who do their research. I was not one of them. I did what was available. I was young. I could have taken my 2nd one to have it done, but after being told about the unnecessary pain, I just couldn’t.
Now, interestly enough, my youngest boy. His son was born this past October. They wanted a circumcision. To have it done, they had to pay cash to the pediatrician at the hospital, it was done there….but there was no paper work of any kind done. Isn’t that odd? I found that strange.
So…I have no opinion. I only have experience, but little knowledge about it. So, today I just came to share the experience.
I have to say that reading this makes me feel better about my own decision. I was the same way, it never really was a decision. I didn’t really think about it, it just is what it is. I’m not Jewish, so it’s not a tradition…but it is all I’ve ever known. So it was just done.
I was also one of the first in my group of friends to have a boy.
Since then, I’ve heard it discussed constantly and I’ve often thought that I was so silly and naive to not even consider an alternative…not that I would have chosen differently…but I don’t really know. I never even looked into it.
I’m not really sure where I stand on this topic…but I don’t believe it’s the government’s decision to make.
We took this decision very seriously, because we felt that it truly was optional for us (as we aren’t Jewish). Part of our philosophy as parents is to make sure that we don’t do anything because everyone else is doing it, but rather, because we are intentional about decisions – probably because we are older parents and set in our own ways no matter how counter-cultural we are. We did not have Jameson circumcised, and although I had my husband’s opinion weigh in heavily on this (as he is more aware of male stigma around this than I obviously am), we shared the philosophy that if circumcising Jameson gave him no benefit, we did not want to have it done.
That said, that’s OUR philosophy, and I’ve learned quickly that I have no right to impose my philosophy (parenting or otherwise) on anyone else. I feel that way about San Francisco’s idea. Because I don’t see it as a pivotal long range health issue, I don’t think something like this should be regulated by any government. I do see their ban on fast food as something that has long-standing health and environmental benefits for the good of all.
I am thoroughly impressed by the thoughtful, rational commentary here on a subject I can understand must fuel very strong emotions.
We had our son circumcised almost 14 years ago. We did not even consider leaving him intact. In fact, at the time, I did not know any intact little boys or men(I am sure I must have, but was simply unaware…leaving boys “intact” was not really a debate back then).
When I actually THINK about what the circumcision involves, I can see why there is now such strong feeling surrounding it and am relieved I do not have to face this decision at this point in history.
But I can’t equate it to what happens to adolescent females in parts of the world. I was under the impression that these girls are essentially castrated, left with no ability to be sexually stimulated or to receive external pleasure.
I do not believe this is the case with most circumcised males.
I have, however, been wrong before. Many times.
VERY interesting issue, Galit. Especially for a California Crazy like me.
We had no religious mandate to either circumsize or not circumsize our boys, but we did give it thought when I was pregnant with my firstborn. Here’s how our conversation went:
Hubby: Are we going to circumsize the baby if it’s a boy?
Me: Don’t know. What do you think?
Hubby: They say it’s cleaner and healthier.
Me: You never got the snip and you’ve made it this far.
Hubby: Good point.
Me: Besides, all we really need to do is teach the child good hygiene habits.
Hubby: How do we do that?
Me: Why are you asking me? I’m not the one around here who has a penis.
Hubby: OK, we won’t circumsize. Besides, why would we cut a bit off before we know how big it’s going to be?
So we decided against it for both of our kids. But it was our decision to make. Not the government’s. Whether or not a boy grows up to be healthy and well-adjusted has nothing to do with circumcision. If safe practices are followed, it does not endanger the child. And so it is my opinion that the government has no place in legislating something like this. Laws are supposed to be put in place for the public good, and all this law would do is impede basic rights and freedoms.
We didn’t circumcise Bear. I had to put my foot down and, trust me, I have received little to no support for this decision. It’s not necessary. Bottom line.
I can see the correlation between circumcision and genital mutilation although the intentions are totally different and boys are still able to experience pleasure if they have had it done. But cutting up a sexual organ certainly speaks to our intense feelings about sex in this culture.
I don’t believe there should be a ban on it. It is a family decision. And i totally agree with you that a ban only encourages non-thinking. I’m not against others doing it just as I would like others to accept my choice not to. If it is your religious preference then you absolutely have that right to have it done. That is a pure and beautiful intention.
Awesome topic, Galit. I get emotional and even a little angry thinking about this one. Probably because I have had to stand my ground about this issue!
Oh, you’re a brave one, aren’t you 😉 – both our boys are circumsized. The decision was made similar to Kirsten’s comment above, but with husband weighing
in on the “let’s do it” side. We’re Episcopal, so no tradition to follow, other than that’s what has always been done, which, if I’m being honest, actually kind of is an Episcopal tradition.
I don’t care what you do, honestly. Cut. Don’t cut. Base it on beliefs or medical research or gut feelings. Whatever. What I do care about is a group thinking it’s any of their &%$#@! business what I decide. Our country was founded on religious freedwom, yet this measure calls for no religious exemptions. None.
I’m not too familiar with the Jewish tradition, but it sounds like the procedure is usually done in a private home. So, how is that going to work? Monitoring of religious leaders who support or actually provide the service? Government officials peeking into boy diapers while the parents look the other way? Snitches in the locker room?
People of San Francisco, if you vote to put this law into place, you’re even nuttier than I originally thought.
I am very impressed everyone is leaving such thoughtful and kind comments.
I don’t think it is the government’s business personally. I believe there are so many more pressing health care issues they can stick their nose into before this one is deemed important enough to butt into.
It is a personal decision–be it health, cosmetic, religious. I do wish I had put more thought into our decision. Instead I left it completely up to my husband (he deals with all things penis related). My OB said it was a good idea, our Ped said it was usually done, and my Hubby wanted his son to look like him and not be teased. I just went along. Luckily everything went fine, Kiddo was circumcised in a minute at the hospital and barely even cried. I have never felt guilty.
It should be each parent’s choice and the government and other parents should respect one another.
Well written piece on a very hot topic. Well done, Mamaleh!
Jennifer Burden
@Galit- As far as waiting until the child is old enough to decide, let me ask a few questions myself. Do we wait until a child is old enough to decide for themselves to take a bath? Do we wait to give them vegetables until they’re old enough to decide if they want them? Nope. We, as parents, are given stewardship over our children. For a time, we make their decisions. I think that if a parent feels strongly that they want to circumcise their child, they have the stewardship as parents to make that decision. The government should not be allowed to take that stewardship away.
Now, I’m not saying that every boy should be circumcised, I’m just saying that there are plenty of things in this world that shouldn’t wait. I have a nephew who, for medical reasons, had to be circumcised at the age of 3. It was a full 2 weeks recovery for him. He still talks about the process, a full 2 years later. A baby boy can’t remember it, and it certainly doesn’t take as long to recover.
I love what Wild Child Mama said. I want my right to circumcise supported as much as my right not to circumcise.
Galit-we have been talking about this issue at my place of work all week. Very heated debate. I told Charles that I was not even willing to debate this issue, if we had boys they were going to be circumcised. End of story. They both were and I would do it again if given the chance. As a health care professional I understand that it is considered a cosmetic procedure, but I have seen many uncircumcised men who have had to have it done later in life because of various problems and it is a much bigger deal then. Once a man gets older there may be hygiene issues as I have seen in nursing homes. Great post!
@OneTiredEma: That is a good point; circumcision is a one-time, relatively easy thing to do. It’s harder for a grown-up to set aside a day a week for Shabbat, or to fast for High Holidays, or cover one’s head when it’s not fashionable to do so, or to stop eating bacon cheeseburgers. That’s a big part of the reason why circumcision irks me so. It doesn’t require any *real* sacrifice on a parent’s part, especially if the parent feels entirely righteous in doing it because it’s part of their religion.
@Melissa: If you can think of any examples of things parents do to their children that involve permanently altering their bodies (which bathing and eating vegetables do not, except in a non-invasive, non-harmful way), that would help your case. For my part, I see this issue as more comparable to that of Christian Scientists, who withhold medical treatment on behalf of their children and instead pray. I think most of us will say that, at some point, the government needs to step in to prevent harm.
Two things: The ex and I chose to empower our son by letting him make the decision. The 7-day old was quite indifferent and really had no argument for or against. We decided for him, and he hasn’t brought it up in his 19 years since. 2: If it is to be done, it should be done as a ceremony with ritual, friends, food. It is an incredibly bonding moment for all and one of the few mitzvot that cannot be returned.
I’m with you. I SO WISH I had put more serious thought into this. I was really naive when my first son was born. Every male I had ever interacted with (physically or otherwise) had been circumcised and that was enough evidence that it was the right thing to do (sad, but true). By the time my third son was born, I was definitely a more thoughtful parent. But guess what? I still didn’t think about it. I think on some level I knew that if I thought too much about my original decision I may regret it. If I didn’t circumcise my youngest, I would have to admit I made a mistake with my oldest. I’m proud of how I’ve handled a lot of situations as a parent, but this is not one of them. Ugh.
I totally agree that everything in Judaism, from saying the sh’ma to orchestrating a bris, should be done with Cavanah (intention). As a mamma who values immersing my kids in Judaism, if I have a son, I plan to choose the mohel, (pick the caterer), and design the ceremony with lots of thought in line with this Jewish tradition of intentionality.
Would it disturb me to hear a son cry during a circumcision? Yes. Just as it’s hard for me to hear my daughter cry when she receives a vaccination shot. But it would never occur to me to let my discomfort over hearing a child cry get in the way of their well-being (either spiritual or physical). Parenthood isn’t always comfortable, but you still do what’s right for your kids’ sake.
Funny, I never hear people complain about piercing ears. I see lots of very young children (almost all girls) with holes in their ears. Holes that some adult put there without consulting the child.
I am a happily circumcised man. I don’t remember it. I don’t harbor any ill will or hard feelings about it.
I have fathered children so it had no ill effect upon my ability to procreate.
At the risk of TMI from the time I became sexually active I have never once considered that it could be better had I not been circumcised. Not even a concern.
Fact is if you bend it the wrong direction, “poke it with a sharp object” or use it in the wrong manner it hurts. And that pain would be there regardless of circumcision status.
I have to say, I’m really dismayed at all of the parents here who talk about THEIR decision. What about the BOY’s decision? I am a man, in my 30’s, and I was circumcised as an infant. If I could, I would go back in time and change it. But I can’t.
Had I been left intact, I could have chosen to have it done as an adult or even as a teenager. It’s my body, the one I’ll have to live with for the rest of my life, and someone else made that choice for me.
This isn’t about your religious freedom, this is about respecting the boy’s autonomy. What if a religion said that parents should kill their kids if they were twins, because twins are evil?
We respect women’s rights so much, that we even allow them to terminate their own unborn childred (her body, her choice. Sound familiar?) Yet men don’t have the same rights.
As to why I’m unhappy, two reasons. It’s been said that there are multiple nerve endings that are severed in this process. Some people argue that it’s not significant, others that pleasure is reduced. I’ll NEVER KNOW for sure. There are nerve receptors in my brain that will never be fired, and I’ll have to wonder my whole life “what would it feel like to have those nerves?” I will never know. Women, imagine some of your nerves had been missing your whole life. Would that bother you?
The second reason is because it’s very uncomfortable to have the head of my penis pressing against cloth all day. Women, think of having your clitoris pressing and rubbing against your underwear all the time. Most men, I don’t even think know they’re uncomfortable because it’s all they’ve ever experienced, but take it from me, it is.
Kevin
I don’t have boys so I can’t give you a first-hand experience on how I would feel, but I do have 4 girls. I took my two oldest, at the time 4 and 3, to have their ears pierced. The oldest went first. When the gun pierced her right ear lobe she raised her hand to her ear in shock. Then she had her left lobe pierced and raised her second hand to cover that ear. The look on her face was a horrible thing for a mother to see. My three year old took one look at her sister and bolted out of the shop. It was only after she saw her sister with a lollipop in hand did she agree to have her ears pierced as well. I refused to be watch this time and let my sister-in-law take care of it.
When daughters #3 and #4 decided they wanted their ears pierced I let their father take them to visit their grandmother in England and have it done there, far enough away that I couldn’t even hear the gun, but I could still feel their pain.
It’s a hard decision to put your child through pain, whether it be for religious reasons, in the case of a brit milah, or for other reasons altogether.
BTW, I’m wondering how many mothers are against a brit milah, but would have their little girls’ ears pierced in a heartbeat.
@Miriyummy: Speaking for myself, I wouldn’t pierce an infant’s ears. I’ve also told my four-year-old daughter that if she ever wants her ears pierced, she will need to wait until she is old enough to have them done by a piercer, with a needle, rather than with a gun, as it is all-around better, with fewer complications. So, yeah, I am all for letting my kids choose which body modifications they wish to have. 🙂
Following this discussion as well as the wider communal conversation, I can’t help wondering why the brit has become controversial now.
Have Jewish parents of generations past not cared as much about their children? Do we honestly believe that our parents cherished us less than we cherish our children?
So if it isn’t the level of parental concern that’s changed, what has? I think that what has changed is our confidence in the rightness of our choices.
I would point to jewishmamma’s example of vaccination. When we’re sure that what we’re doing is right for our children, we don’t bother worrying that we’re making a choice for them.
So I think the better question to ask is not “how can I stand to hear my baby cry” but rather “what has made me think that the brit might be the wrong choice.”
I am not a Jew, but i understand exactly what you’re talking about. Everything in life, especially when talking about our kids, has to be done from a very thoughtful and conscious standpoint.
I can’t stand the it-has-always-been-like-that speech since absolutely nothing is the same as it was years ago…
I’m Jewish and did not circumcise my sons. It is not my right to permanently alter their bodies in the name of my religion. They can decide for themselves when they are consenting adults what to do with their own bodies based on their own beliefs. That is their right and no one else’s. Many Jews are actually keeping our sons whole these days. A number of our friends and relatives have made similar decisions and the movement to keep Jewish boys whole is quite a growing movement.
The health benefits of circumcision are questionable at best. All the claims about circumcision helping to fight HIV, STDs, or cancer have been debunked repeatedly. Over half-a-dozen medical and pediatric associations in Holland, Australia, New Zealand and elsewhere have therefore officially condemned circumcision. They have looked at all the latest and best research from around the world and found no reason to cut off perfectly healthy foreskins. The risks and disadvantages of circumcision, however, are undeniable. It is undeniable that up to 15 sq. inches of sensitive, nerve-filled, and vein-rich tissue is lost to adult men who are circumcised. It is undeniable that many men suffer physical scarring and life-long trauma from being circumcised. And it is undeniable that many boys die each year from circumcision. Ultimately, it is undeniable that circumcision is needless and immoral.
I am a Male genitally mutilated and hate it like 200,000 other men restoring their foreskin to undo some of the damage and sexual diminishment of genital mutilation: http://www.tlctugger.com We would have said NO to having our penises being genitally mutilated against our will.
Keep your kids whole all the info you need: http://www.WholeNetwork.org Doctors Oppose it: http://www.DoctorsOpposingCircumcision.org Jews oppose it http://www.JewsAgainstCircumcision.org
-No medical organization in the WORLD recommends routine infant genital cutting of males and females
-80% of the world’s men are intact, happy, and healthy and do not elect to get genitally cut.
Keep your kids intact all the info you need: http://www.wholenetwork.org
Genital mutilation is a violation of a baby’s right to 1st amendment freedom of religion. What if they want to be non religious or buddhist when they grow up? Buddhism treasures the foreskin.
“In the 613 mitzvos, we are commanded to:
(N 41) Not imprinting any marks on our bodies (Lev. 19:28)
(N 45) Not making cuttings in our flesh (Deut. 16:1)”
“It is a violation of Torah commandments to physically assault or harm another person (Exodus 21:18-27). Yet that is exactly what circumcision is! Thus, it is against the most fundamental concept of Jewish law.”
Jews Against Genital Mutilation Sites:
http://www.JewsAgainstCircumcision.org
http://www.BeyondTheBris.com
Bris Shalom/brit shalom = No Genital Mutilation. All My Jewish Friends have Bris Shaolmed and kept their babies intact.
Jewish Genital Integrity/Human Rights Links:
My Son: The Little Jew with a Foreskin: http://www.mothering.com/health/my-son-the-little-jew-with-a-foreskin
Jewish Mother Against Circumcision: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HfnqN3YgTd8
Jewish American Scholar Leonard Glick – Circumcision: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4UEbsg-k5Y
Our Son’s Bris Shalom: Welcoming Covenant: http://www.drmomma.org/2010/08/our-sons-bris-shalom-welcoming-covenant.html
I’m a Physician, a Jew, a Father & Grandfather: My position on Circumcision: http://www.drmomma.org/2009/08/im-doctor-jew-father-grandfather-my.html
Brit Shalom Celebrants: http://www.circumstitions.com/Jewish-shalom.html
Bris shalom = naming and identity without the cutting! All my friends leave their boys and girls whole and without harm! http://www.JewsAgainstCircumcision.org
As a former pediatric nurse, I watched circumcisions done and promised myself I wouldn’t have my son go through the procedure. It seemed so unnecessary to make “him look like everyone else.” That’s my choice and I married a man who agreed with me (ironically, he’s a pediatrician).
With that said, I was always floored when mothers would get their babies post-procedure, pull back their son’s diaper and snap, “He’s bleeding!” Well, of course he’s bleeding, they cut off skin.
HOw did you think the foreskin came off? A tricorder? Magic?
Whether you choose to have it or not, people need to ask questions and be 100% sure of their decision if they do. Don’t look back, don’t wonder if you should have, be sure in your decision, and make it together and be educated about the pro and con of circumcision.
As for the people in San Francisco, if this passes, what is to prevent them from deciding ear piercing is barbaric, vaccines are too dangerous, and disposable diapers are a toxin.
Once again, people with very little medical training (as a group) are trying to impose their unbendable beliefs on others. It isn’t their job to decide what’s best for the boys of others, that’s a dicussion for the parents and the doctors, not some faceless extremist group.
Greg, you’re completely wrong about the role that the First Amendment plays in this.
The First Amendment says “Congress shall pass no law …” — it is a limit on the government, not on parents.
If anything, the Constitution sharply limits government intrusion into private religious decisions and into private parental decisions.
This was a big debate in our house… I was for and my husband against. We ended up doing it, but still wonder why.
My argument for was because Daddy is. Lame, right?
Galit, we DID think about this a lot, and it was a hard decision. Our son had a bris, and I’m glad he did, but it really made me understand why the obligation falls to the father.
As his mother, I wanted to just pick him up and run away with him! Well, as much as I could run 8 days post-partum. 😉
Galit –
Thank you for your thoughtful article. I agree that whatever we choose to do with regards to our sons’ foreskins should be thoughtfully and carefully considered by both parents. I also believe it is dangerous territory we tread when we choose to legislate our rights as parents away . . . (Who says what cultural, religious, personal rituals we shouldn’t/can’t implement with our children? That is MY concern as the parent – not the government’s or anyone else’s for that matter.)
I wanted to share my experience on choosing to have my son circumcised. My husband was 100% pro circumcision for our son and I was definitely leaning towards it. We both come from (non-Jewish) families who circumcised their sons. Notwithstanding my personal preferences, I still took the time to research the pros and cons of the procedure before it was performed. For several reasons I don’t feel I need to defend or mention – we choose to have our son circumcised, and we haven’t regretted it for one day.
Might I add, that I decided that if I would choose this for my son that I should also be there to hold his hand through the process. He certainly didn’t like being strapped to the table, but during the actual procedure he was quite content to look at me and to drink a little sugar water. The circumcision was done perfectly and healed perfectly – no blood, crust, infection. Nothing. I believe that part of this was due to the fact that I took the time to research and choose an experienced pediatrician before he was born.
Wow. I’m surprised to see so many posts since my last one. Still, I find it interesting that neither of the people arguing against the law (PatriciaWF and Jamie)even acknowledged the existence of men like myself and Greg, who clearly regret it, even though two of us posted, and there are clearly many more like us, if you care to research. (Which Jamie clearly didn’t do a good job of, or she’d have known of us–maybe she doesn’t care?)
My wife and I had two sons, and both are intact. Neither have any health problems, and both were given decent upbringings, and will not go around having unprotected sex. She wanted to cut them at first, but after seeing the evidence, decided against it.
For Jamie, you clearly have little respect for your son, or his rights to alter his own body as he sees fit. Jamie is too wrapped up in her “right” as a parent against the government to consider her son’s rights or interests.
Patricia seems to oppose circumcision, but her analagies are invalid. Ear piercing should be done with the consent of the individual. Neither vaccinations nor diapers surgically alter the body. And vaccinations are proven to combat disease and save lives.
Kevin
Keven –
I can appreciate your concern over this issue and the anger you feel towards your parents for your personal “genital mutilation” as you call it.
Though to be fair, Keven, I feel to share a story of a friend of mine, who felt anger towards his parents for the exact opposite reason that you feel anger towards your own. Because of my friend’s issues with a tear and other foreskin complications that occurred as he developed, he had to receive a circumcision at 21 years old. (Which put him out of work for several weeks, and for which he is still paying the debt.) Most tragically for him though, and specifically because his parents did not have him circumcised as a young child – as their doctor had recommended he should be – he no longer has ANY feeling whatsoever in his penis. You wonder whether or not there are nerves you can no longer feel – my friend knows he cannot feel anything. Though it all could have been prevented with a circumcision as a baby/child – before he could choose for himself.
Another instance I’ll share with you, Keven: while working in the E.R. my husband saw an intact man come in one evening who tore very badly when having intercourse. He was bleeding so much that he fainted soon after his arrival. I don’t know whether it was suggested he get a circumcision as a fix to the concern, but it was certainly a concern for that man that night.
While you, Keven, feel angry about being circumcised – there are plenty more who are happy to have been circumcised for the convenience, health benefits, cleanliness, look, family ties, and religious observance that having a circumcision provides for them.
Even though I share these pro-circumcision stories though, I realize (and did realize before I had my son cut) that the truth is, there are very legitimate pros and cons on both side of this issue. This issue is too complicated to say that only one way is best. The fact that you had a different experience – than say my happily circumcised husband or my previously uncut friend tells me that this decision is best made by a thoughtful parent (s), with their doctor, and if applicable – their religious leader. Because the truth is, that choosing to not have your son circumcised is as much an active decision as choosing to have your son circumcised is one. If a boy is left intact as a baby, it is extremely more expensive, painful, and risky for him to choose to undergo the procedure for himself as an adult.
Keven, I respect your choice to have left your sons intact. That is as much as health, social, cosmetic, cultural, religious, emotional issue to you as my decision to have my son cut was to me. For the reasons that there are a variety of experiences – both positive and negative – on both sides of this issue tell me that this is clearly a decision where choices should not be taken out of parents’ hands.